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Grammar to Get Things Done! (Dr. Darren Crovitz) - Shared screen with speaker view
Debra Robinson
30:09
Please give us your name and tell us where you’re from as you enter the session.
Mrs. Kellee Lyons
30:23
Kellee Lyons, Walnut High School, CA
Jennifer Fletcher
30:24
Jennifer from Seaside, CA 🙂
Kim Flachmann
30:26
Kim Flachmann, CSU Bakersfield
Tara McMullen
30:30
Tara McMullen from Modesto, CA
Nicole Zaccheo
30:32
Nicole Zaccheo, Gunderson High School - San Jose
Anna-Eunhee Lee Chee
30:33
Anna Chee Los Angeles, CA
Heather Heistand
30:35
Heather in San Francisco, CA
barbaratigert
30:36
Barbett from Sacramento
Glen McClish
30:37
Glen McClish, San Diego State University
Melody Sickler
30:37
Melody from Hollister
Sasha Faynor
30:37
Sasha Faynor, Long Beach, CA
Stephanie Knapp
30:38
Stephanie Knapp - Fresno
NANCY
30:39
Nancy from La Puente, CA
Lindsay Richina
30:40
Lindsay Richina from Sacramento, Ca
Sara Haro
30:41
Sara Haro from Oakland
Nelson Graff (he, him, his)
30:41
Nelson Graff, Monterey, CA, unceded territory of the Essalen people
Christopher Eddings
30:42
Chris Eddings, Stanislaus COE, Modesto CA
James Sturch
30:43
James Sturch — Grossmont Union High District, El Cajon, Ca
David Gracia
30:44
David from Woodland, CA
kaila
30:45
Kaila from Modesto
New Pacific School
30:45
Romyl in West Sacramento
Yesenia Martinez L
30:47
Yesenia Martinez from San Lorenzo CA
Lauri - she/her
30:48
Lauri Clausen, ACOE AOA San Leandro CA
Kathryn Howard
30:49
Katy—Napa, CA
Nicole Crosby
30:49
Nicole Crosby - ACOE - Oakland, CA
Deanna Walsh
30:49
Good afternoon. My name is Deanna (Deana) Walsh and I am from Riverside California.
johnettafleming
30:51
Johnetta Fleming Los Angeles, CA
Carlos Barrera
30:54
Carlos Barrera, Atlanta Georgia area, one highway exit away from Dr. Crovitz's home
Lucia Gonzalez
30:56
Lucia from Santa Cruz
Kim E. Burnette
30:56
Kim - Virginia Beach, VA
Jeff Halbe
30:57
Jeff Halbe from Livermore HS
Tracey Anderson
30:58
Tracey Anderson Sacramento
Lynn Schaulis
30:58
Lynn - Norwalk La Mirada USD (LA County)
Christine Anderson
30:59
Christine in Fair Oaks
Rachel Hudson 8th grade ELA ELD
30:59
Rachel Hudson Marin
crystalepps
31:01
Crystal Epps, Riverside Unified School District
Tarlton Roderick Scott
31:09
Roderick Tarlton, Westminster, CA
Alque Ryans
31:10
Alque Ryans, ACOE - Oakland, CA
Christine Rominiecki
31:11
Christine Rominiecki from Alameda County
Maxine Sweeney
31:13
Hi Maxine from Whittier, CA
Deanna Walsh
31:15
I work at AB Miller High school in Fontana
Jim Jordan
31:17
Jim Jordan, AP Reading pal of Dr. Crovitz, San Francisco
Mariam Ogle
31:17
Mariam Ogle Fresno, CA Hi everyone! I’m glad to be with you all this afternoon
RRT
31:18
Rocio Rodriguez-Thomas, Santa Ana, California.
lois_clark
31:20
Lois Clark, Loma Linda, California
Jennifer Fletcher
31:22
Carlos! So nice to see you.
Kathy Carlson
31:23
Kathy Carlson, Sacramento County, CA
Lisa Phillips
31:24
Lisa from Riverside County
guadalupe
31:24
Guadalupe Cowley, Montebello Unified
English Language Workshop
31:30
Dan from Chicago
mkelly
31:41
Mike Kelly, Redding, CA , Shasta County Office of Ed, Independent Study
Jennifer Fletcher
31:53
Great to see you, Jim!
Gloria Poole
32:06
Gloria Poole, San Jose CA
Kathryn Howard
32:09
Katy—Napa, CA
Jim Jordan
32:10
Right back at you, Jennifer!
Ester Myers
32:13
Hello from Ester Myers from Corona California
Carlos Barrera
32:13
Hi Jennifer. Of course you are here!
Lisa Hansen
32:23
Lisa - Clovis, CA
Jennifer Fletcher
32:32
Nice to see you here, Melody!
Kim
32:34
Kim Boerner Oakland CA
Ana Lee
32:53
Ana Lee, VVUHSD in California, Victorville
Melody Sickler
33:02
You too Professor! I saw your email just in time
123885
33:20
Katie Scarafone, Henry High San Diego
Paola Walker
33:53
Paola Walker, Camp Sweeney, San Leandro
Susan (she/her)
34:27
Susan St John, Kaneohe, Hawaii
Alicia Garcia
34:37
Alicia Garcia, ACOE, Hayward, CA
Bianca Woods she/her/hers- Ohlone Land
34:59
Bianca Woods, San Francisco
Lynda Dubon-Chavez
35:29
Resources Folder: https://tinyurl.com/GrammarCrovitz
Lynda Dubon-Chavez
36:06
Resources Folder: https://tinyurl.com/GrammarCrovitz
Deanna Walsh
38:21
Thank you so much for sending the resources folder
Lisa Mccarty
40:04
Lisa McCarty Oakland
Ted Weber
40:53
Edward Weber LAUSD City of Angels
Kumiko Williams
42:20
My apologies, but could you resend the resource folder? I cannot see the link. Thank you
Lynda Dubon-Chavez
43:53
Sure! Resources Folder: https://tinyurl.com/GrammarCrovitz
Kumiko Williams
44:20
Thanks!
Lisa Hansen
47:06
I want to see the good stuff :)
Rachel Hudson 8th grade ELA ELD
47:07
Hello Mr. Nelson. I was in your credential program ten years ago.
Alicia Garcia
47:29
Keep on Truckin' :)
Kathy Carlson
47:43
YES!
Jim Jordan
48:09
Love the language study concept!
Kathy Carlson
49:18
I was taught in the “traditional manner” and when I became a teacher I approached as you suggest - particularly on principles 1,2,3. Feels nice to know I moved in a positive direction.
Mariam Ogle
49:34
That is so true, Grammar triggers students and teachers
Cynthia V
50:04
I had never really thought about this before, but I will definitely keep it in mind for my future students.
Randall Melton
50:40
I use grammar as a part of Writers Workshop, so they’re not isolated concepts apart from actual writing.
Lynn Schaulis
50:47
I love this - how does this work? What do we notice? Let’s play with it, study it!
Randall Melton
51:20
Agreed!
Lynn Schaulis
51:40
APPLAUSE!
Jyothi Bathina
51:59
love the writers workshop approach to grammar, Randall.
Kumiko Williams
52:04
Language study, as an art using words the same way painters use a palette?
Randall Melton
52:29
Thanks—Jeff Anderson’s idea
Cynthia V
52:38
Yes!
Coach Smith
52:53
But at some point, shouldn't we use the traditional term? A lot of them will show up on the SBAC and in higher level classes, such as AP Lang...
guadalupe
53:11
I agree
Jim Jordan
53:19
MUCH more accessible — and inclusive!
Randall Melton
53:21
Yes—when absolutely necessary
Nicole Crosby
53:23
Love the rebranding!
Joe Calabrese
53:24
Very clever technique, like putting broccoli in lasagna! ;-)
Kathy Carlson
53:26
I’m with you Coach Smith, so I focus on the organic development but keep the academic terms.
Jennifer Villa
53:30
yes
Mariam Ogle
53:40
Assets based - so important!
Carlos Barrera
54:02
Now you are talking. Paolo Friere. So I'll go into classroom with a "how does Kendrick Lamar use language to move us toward action."
Jim Jordan
54:07
AP Lang no longer includes these terms, by the way. Much more idea focused now.
Coach Smith
54:26
I wonder where students picked up placing the comma in front of the conjunction.....
Joe Calabrese
54:33
Very clever! It reminds me of putting broccoli into my lasagna to make it healthier! ;-)
Kathy Carlson
54:34
That is true Jim Jordan but those terms are included in the textbook exercises!
Kumiko Williams
54:35
The formal language terms are part of the art - just not the first element - more sophisticated level for student who are ready for them?
Randall Melton
54:58
Coach Smith, it’s a misapplication from informal verbal transitions.
Anna-Eunhee Lee Chee
55:41
I agree with Coash Smith as well. All students including English learners need to know the grammar patterns' names, forms, and functions, otherwise, they have no command or control of the language and will remain at a low level of language proficiency and force them to get Ds in most content classes.
Coach Smith
55:43
Wait--the other way around--they have been placing the comma after the conjunction
Jim Jordan
56:05
@Kathy Carlson: Right you are. As Carlos Barrera always says, sometimes its better not to use a textbook at all for that course.
Randall Melton
56:13
I assumed that’s what you meant.
Joe Calabrese
56:17
If you use the technical terms repeatedly without negative consequences they will not be feared, students will be proud of themselves that they have mastered new concepts.
Anna-Eunhee Lee Chee
56:43
Great point Joe.
Coach Smith
56:48
So true--technical terms are simply a tool. Love it
Kathy Carlson
57:08
@ Jim Jordan Ouch! However, I know college professors use the academic terms.
Anna-Eunhee Lee Chee
57:56
Yes, tools students need desperately for reading, discussion, writing, and understanding content texts and concepts.
Randall Melton
58:02
Success with terminology depends in part on presentation and classroom environment. Yet,
Randall Melton
58:48
Students may need to be eased into formal terms. The most important thing is that they recognize and can use the elements.
Jim Jordan
59:33
Agreed @Randall. Function matters more than terminology
Carlos Barrera
59:54
Jim Jordan taught me not to use the high fluting words....academic terms but better when the ideas are expressed in simple clear language.
Coach Smith
01:00:02
Color-coding helps a lot--dependent clauses can be written in red, and independent clauses can be written in green, for example
Jennifer Fletcher
01:00:36
Great to see you here, Jennifer!
Jim Jordan
01:00:51
I don’t mind if you know those terms, Carlos. I just want to help you avoid sounding pretentious. Not that you ever could!
Anna-Eunhee Lee Chee
01:01:09
I use color-coding also not just for clauses but also for smaller meaning chunks such as prepositional phrases or subject and verb.
Carlos Barrera
01:02:02
use of parallel structure to emphasize ideas
Jim Jordan
01:02:48
This is very helpful for ERWC
Kathy Carlson
01:03:02
The idea to explain what punctuation does I find helps students to create more complex and elegant sentences. Less periodic writing styles.
Randall Melton
01:03:21
I agree, Kathy.
Jim Jordan
01:04:14
I do too. Voice is hard for many students.
Kathy Carlson
01:04:38
@ Jim Jordan I teach ERWC 12 and find the grammar “lessons” dry so I don’t use them separately, but bring in the lapses as Darren said, find the platform of tools they already have and move from that…
Coach Smith
01:05:07
Participial phrases used correctly is so hard to teach and to learn and remember... Sentence combining I guess...
Randall Melton
01:05:44
Harry Noden has a good book that deals with using grammatical elements for creativity: Image Grammar.
Jim Jordan
01:05:54
I love that approach, @Kathy.
Kathy Carlson
01:06:17
I haven’t used that term with my 11s or 12s or AP Lang students because as a puzzle piece they write that way but can’t name it. I tend to focus on the doing of the punctuation elements.
Coach Smith
01:07:23
ERWC uses the term "modifying phrase" or something similar. It was in one of the earlier modules
Kathryn Howard
01:08:01
@Kathy—where are the grammar “lessons” in ERWC 12? I haven’t found them; seems like they went away with 3.0.
Coach Smith
01:08:19
I found them in the archived link
Kathy Carlson
01:08:53
@ Kathryn. They are there as a separate link in the units. I don’t think they went away.
Randall Melton
01:09:01
@Kathy, I use “participle” with my AP students, but only with a simplified, functional definition. The focus is on using it—not identifying it or diagramming it.
Randall Melton
01:09:39
YES!
Jim Jordan
01:09:49
There’s the soundbite of the night. “There’s no such thing as standardized English”
Kathy Carlson
01:09:51
@ Randal. YEP!
Mariam Ogle
01:10:16
Yes the Grammar links are in the “Archived” section
Jennifer Fletcher
01:11:15
You can also find the rhetorical grammar chapters from ERWC 2.0 in the menu on the page for “Overview Documents” under the 3.0 tab (I know that’s a lot of clicks).
Kathy Carlson
01:11:29
@ Jim Jordan. Yes there is, BUT the standards of language change with cultural and practical acceptance over time. Things that were “standard” even a few years ago ie pronouns, have merged with cultural applications.
Coach Smith
01:11:59
I found some embedded in the 1984 module.
Jennifer Fletcher
01:12:38
There’s an updated resource for 3.0—“Rhetorical Grammar in ERWC: A User’s Guide”—that you can also find with the overview documents under the 3.0 tab.
Coach Smith
01:13:12
Love it--"Make the doer disappear"
Kathy Carlson
01:13:22
I explain Active Voice as NOUN in the front! Seems to work.
Coach Smith
01:13:47
I hope he gets to gerunds
Jim Jordan
01:13:59
This reminds me of Richard Lanham’s Paramedic Method. GREAT stuff!
Randall Melton
01:14:13
I agree, Jim.
Jim Jordan
01:15:48
Dr. Lanham recorded a video at UCLA in 1980 that I still use today: https://youtu.be/YpRnAJuy-Ck
Jennifer Fletcher
01:16:26
If you’d like more information on ERWC’s rhetorical approach to language learning, please visit https://www.calstate.edu/CAR/Pages/erwc.aspx
Kathryn Howard
01:17:04
@Jennifer: Thank you!
Jim Jordan
01:17:09
Memes are big in 6th grade out here too, Darren. My son swims in a sea of them!
Kathy Carlson
01:17:10
Yikes. HOW FUN!
Cynthia V
01:17:26
I do think that memes and gifs are a great way to interact with students and engage them with an activity. It can make things more fun for them too.
Randall Melton
01:17:36
This is great!
Jim Jordan
01:17:45
Isn’t it?
Kathy Carlson
01:18:16
@ Jim Jordan. Is this Yearbook Guru Jim?
Glen McClish
01:18:43
Delightful, empowering presentation!
Coach Smith
01:18:52
I wish students would get this message before they get to high school and definitely before they get to their senior year...
Jennifer Fletcher
01:19:05
The new ERWC blog (erwc.blog) has some great posts on language, including this one by Robby Ching: https://erwc.blog/2021/03/27/what-does-it-mean-to-value-the-languages-students-bring-with-them/
Lynn Schaulis
01:19:09
The apologies example PERFECT!
Mariam Ogle
01:19:11
Yes! Helping them to communicate clearly gives them power. These are great points
Sasha Faynor
01:19:23
I taught imperative, commands, through call to action in advertising.
Joe Calabrese
01:19:38
Is the CHAT savable? There is a lot of valuable information being shared!! ;-)
Sasha Faynor
01:19:39
Calls to action
Carlos Barrera
01:19:47
No that's another Jim Jordan. This Jim Jordan is very influential with the College Board. He's been a Question Leader for the AP Lang exam the last couple of years/
Jim Jordan
01:20:04
@Kathy, I know about 6 other Jim Jordans (not counting the awful one in Ohio), and I think you might be referring to the one in Sacramento. We were at the same table one year at the AP Reading, so we’ve become friends.
Lisa Benham-Lewis
01:20:46
Jennifer or Jyothi ; Will participants be able to get a copy of the chat?
Mariam Ogle
01:20:56
This is good for SEL growth too
Kathy Carlson
01:20:58
You and I have actually met. Jim introduced you to me a few years ago in Tampa. I was just trying to place the right Jim. Thanks for the interesting and engaging chat!
Jennifer Fletcher
01:21:28
You should be able to save the chat by clicking on the three dots. 🙂
Jim Jordan
01:21:44
Not quite as influential as Carlos Barrera of the AP Lang Development Committee . . .
Coach Smith
01:22:28
True--the AP lang test dropped the grammar I think. Our iready testing, though, uses technical terms
Jim Jordan
01:22:34
Cool! Hello again, Kathy! Thanks for figuring that out!
Randall Melton
01:22:57
I’ve used Elements of Style to help AP students to work on developing their own style.
Ted Weber
01:23:02
Super Presentation
Kathy Carlson
01:23:14
Do you observe this more student friendly approach as a movement?
Mrs. Kellee Lyons
01:23:21
This was really helpful!
RRT
01:23:25
If SAT’s return, what is the best way to approach the grammar expectations there?
Jim Jordan
01:23:34
GREAT stuff, Darren. Thanks for all the ideas!
Melody Sickler
01:23:39
What would be some advice you would give to future teachers?
Jeanette Providence
01:23:50
Excellent Presentation.
Lynn Schaulis
01:23:50
So grateful to know you’re working with pre-service teachers (to have an exponential effect!).
Kathy Carlson
01:24:14
What’s your one catch word for this style work?
Coach Smith
01:24:17
I wish this movement would move more. To teach grammar at the high school level, the teacher has to teach basic skills such as the 8 parts of speech...
Jennifer Fletcher
01:24:19
Could you say more about the differences between code-switching and code-meshing and the social values/impacts associated with each?
Joe Calabrese
01:24:47
The “Three Dots” to save the CHAT are not turned on! Perhaps they can be toggled on so we can save the CHAT! :-)
Charles Griffin
01:24:49
FIGHT the return of the SAT!!
Randall Melton
01:25:18
Thanks so much for this great presentation.
Charles Griffin
01:25:29
All language is arbitrary so why not cope with arbitrary terms like gerunds and participles?
Charles Griffin
01:25:39
Clauses are ideas.
Coach Smith
01:25:40
Thank you--I don't feel so "old-school" any longer.
Cynthia V
01:25:56
Thank you!
Kathy Carlson
01:26:18
Where is the best place to get your books? Are there any desk copies available from your publisher?
Lynda Dubon-Chavez
01:26:23
Hi Joe, the chat will be shared with participants and will also be available as a tab at the shared recording link. :)
RRT
01:26:32
Yes, SATs are standard grammar instruction format so we may still need to use conventional grammar instruction until those institution expectations change. Thank you.
Kristen Justice Palado
01:26:48
Thank you for an awesome presentation!
Charles Griffin
01:26:49
By the way, I think your use of showing how passive voice makes responsibility disappear is brilliant
Randall Melton
01:26:50
I tell them that academic writing requires a certain dialect, but that dialect is NOT standard for everything.
Lisa Benham-Lewis
01:27:02
Thank you for an amazing presentation!
Charles Griffin
01:27:36
So do we give our students the tools of power?
Joe Calabrese
01:27:42
Thank you!!
Charles Griffin
01:27:50
Or how do we best give them the tools of power?
Kumiko Williams
01:28:14
Thank you for making remember why I enjoy the language puzzle of grammar
Deanna Walsh
01:28:20
Thank you so much for this presentation
Carlos Barrera
01:28:27
Jennifer, I know why you asked your question. In a state like California so rich in culture, with a history of racial strife--with your experience training teachers to teach a majority minority population...language is a beautiful thing to study.
Christine Anderson
01:28:52
Thank you!! This was wonderful
Jyothi Bathina
01:28:55
Wonderful presentation!
Dayrin Flores
01:29:01
Thank you!
Nicole Crosby
01:29:01
Excellent webinar, Darren!
Jennifer Fletcher
01:29:04
This has been absolutely fantastic! I wish this had been a two-hour webinar. Thank you!
guadalupe
01:29:06
Thank you
Elise Sotello (she/her/hers)
01:29:11
Thanks so much!
RRT
01:29:12
Thank you!
Maxine Sweeney
01:29:13
Thank you
Jennifer Villa
01:29:13
thank you!!
NANCY
01:29:16
Thank you!
Susan (she/her)
01:29:20
Thank you!
Darren Crovitz
01:29:20
thanks everyone
Joe Calabrese
01:29:21
Thank you for a great presentation!
David Gracia
01:29:27
Thank you
Anna-Eunhee Lee Chee
01:29:27
Thanks
NANCY
01:29:28
Great presentation!
Paola Walker
01:29:31
Thank you
Lisa Phillips
01:29:32
Thank you!
Kathy Carlson
01:29:34
Thank you so so much. I think differently than most of my department members on the how. So this was fantastic and validating! Can’t wait to read your books.
Alicia Garcia
01:29:34
Thank you Darren. Appreciate your work.
Sara Haro
01:29:35
Thanks
Melody Sickler
01:29:38
Thank you!
E Whitney
01:29:48
Thank you, Darren.
Mariam Ogle
01:29:53
Yes this was wonderful, thank you!